Warren:
Q. Ahh.
A. Shame me legs are tied up.
Q. Sorry?
A. Shame these legs, I might be able to take them off.
Q. No, leave, leave them the way they are I think.
A. Otherwise I might get in trouble.
Q. Mmm. So don't, don't ahh, play with them you might get yourself in trouble.
A. That is why I might've been better off if I wasn't alive anymore wih all this. This bullshit.
Q. Just excuse me Martin.
INSPECTOR WARREN LEAVES THE ROOM.
A. Ahh, it's turned off I suppose. You've got a hot drink, you're lucky. Some interesting guns. Unknown voice: Ahh?
A. Some interesting guns there. Unknown voice: Mmm.
INSPECTORS PAINE AND WARREN RE-ENTER THE ROOM.
INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND CONVERSATION.
Warren:
Q. How's the feet?
A. Oh my leg's aching a bit. That doesn't matter umm, it's good to have a talk to people. I tell you I'd rather be in at Kentucky Fried Chicken at this minute.
Q. Martin just ahh, why did, why did you, I'm rather interested ahh, to know why you made the comment just a minute ago, about you said, you said you'd rather be dead or something?
A. Well at this umm, now I can't remember now what, what I was thinking. Ohh that's right that umm.
Q. Just talk up a bit Martin?
A. Ohh I wouldn't have to worry, worry about this would I, I wouldn't be in prison would I, but and all the burns, having to put up with all the burns and stuff.
Q. Mmm.
A. Be easier for you wouldn't it if I was.
Q. Be easier for me?
A. Yeah.
Q. Well, it really doesn't make any difference to me Martin, so.
A. Mmm.
Q. We don't like to see anyone ahh, die to be perfectly honest.
Warren:
Q. How did you get the burns?
A. From the fire I spose.
Q. Which fire?
A. I, I was involved in down at the car. The BMW.
Warren:
Q. Can you remember how you started that fire?
A. Must've been with a match.
Q. With a match?
A. Mmm.
Q. Do you carry matches with you?
A. Not very often, I don't smoke so there's no reason for me to carry matches or lighters.
Q. Mmm.
Warren:
Q. You don't smoke at all?
A. No, not at all.
Q. Clean-living person?
A. Try to be.
Warren:
Q. Have you ever had a smoke Martin or ...
A. No, not at all.
Q. Mmm. So ahh, why would you have the matches?
A. Probably because ahh, there happened to be a box of matches in the BMW, jacket, in me jacket.
Q. In a jacket there?
A. Yeah.
Warren:
Q. What type of jacket was that?
A. Inside 'cos I umm, wore it a couple of times when I used to light like an open fire at home so I forgot to take the box of matches out ... inaudible ...
Q. What type of jacket was that Martin?
A. It was a Ripcurl, it was a black Ripcurl.
Q. How long?
A. It would've went to about there.
Q. What, went down to about your mid thighs?
A. Waist, yeah.
Q. So it's a long jacket?
A. Yeah.
Q. Ohh. When, the hostage, did you, did he just get in or did you handcuff him or anything like that?
A. Umm, handcuffed him or anything, no. Ahh, what was that?
Q. Well do you own any handcuffs?
A. No, never, never owned handcuffs in my life.
Q. Ohh right. Do you remember what he was wearing?
A. Ahh, just a sports jacket, a shirt, jeans.
Q. Excuse me one moment, having a technical problem.
A. Like I said, I put you all, through this and wouldn't be here now if I wasn't.
INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND CONVERSATION.
A. I want to know if I can sit over there on one of them chairs, make it easier ... inaudible ...
Q. The trouble is they control those sort of things, not us.
A. inaudible
Q. Can you describe the clothes the hostage was wearing?
A. Ahh, he had a sports jacket on and ...
Warren:
Q. Do you know anyone called Jamie?
A. No, not at all.
Q. What about Rick?
A. Rick, no. I don't. I've got no recollection of him.
Q. Do you remember seeing a white ahh, small japanese car, like a Corolla?
A. Corolla, no. Not at all.
Q. Did your Mum and Dad ever want to buy Seascape? A, No, no.
Q. Did you ever want to buy it? A, No, umm, I would've loved to have bought the Martin's farm, that other one, next door to the Larson's but.
Q. And that's in umm.
A. Just ... inaudible ... it's beautiful.
Q. What's the name of the road?
A. Ahh, Palmers Lookout Road.
Q. Palmers Lokout.
A. Yeah, I'd like, what I did, asked them a few times but Mrs Martin didn't want to sell. She said ... inaudible ... one day and I ... inaudible ...
Q. When did she tell you that?
A. When I was smaller, when I was about sixteen, seventeen.
Q. Ohh back in school days?
Warren:
Q. Was that when you first said that you'd like to buy that property or ...
A. Ohh a few times but that was about ... inaudible ... I talked to my mother that night and she said no I'm not interested in helping out.
Warren:
Q. Is that when the Martins bought it?
A. Yes, back in '78. That upset me that did. Mmm.
Q. Did Lindy like, used to like going down there?
A. Yeah Lindy loved it. Lindy had a lot of friends.
Q. Ohh right.
Warren:
Q. Did you have many friends down there when you were a young fella?
PAINE
Q. Excuse me just a moment.
A. ... inaudible ... I had friends under the water.
Inspector PAINE leaves the room.
WARREN
Q. On the water?
A. Sea. They were my friends, mmm, weekend used to scuba dive.
Q. Mmm.
A. Maybe once, maybe twice a day. Dad used to take me out a lot, over.
Q. Did Dad ahh.
A. My Dad was a ... inaudible ... man.
Q. Did Dad do any diving when you were diving or?
A. No.
Q. He'd just sort of take you out?
A. Mmm. Start the little seagull engine up.
Q. Mmm.
A. In this ... inaudible ...
Q. We're just having a few ahh technical problems. Your father always enouraged you though to sort of get into the diving or?
A. Yeah always.
Q. Right. Want another drink Martin?
A. No, no, that's alright. They get a bit smelly after a while these bandages.
Q. Well you can notice, I can't notice 'em so.
A. ... inaudible ...
Q. Sorry?
A. I don't even know what day it is today. I lose track of the days. I'm losing, I'm losing my mind.
Q. It's the, the fourth of July actually today.
A. I thought you were gonna say that ... inaudible ... lose your mind.
Q. It's Thursday today the fourth of July. Remember ahh, earlier when you said that you saw Glen Martin at Eastlands?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah. Did you know that he had a shop there or?
A. I'd known for quite a while, yeah, me and me Mum.
Q. Mmm.
A. We used to go up to the shop and just look in, ohh he must own the shop.
Q. Mmm.
A. See him working in there. 'Cos his daughter's got a shop too, at Sandy Bay. Has a milkbar.
Q. His daughter?
A. Mmm.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Do you know the Martin's at all?
Q. Ohh I know Glen Martin yeah.
A. Quite well?
Q. Ohh reasonably well.
A. Mmm. So what would be the value in the house to burn down, apparently its sposed to have been burnt down ... inaudible ...
Q. I've got no idea. Can you remember what you said to Glen that day or, at the shop?
A. I asked for a cappuccino. How are you Glen and how is your brother.
Q. Mmm.
A. How's your Mum and Dad.
(Inaudible background conversation.)
Q. Mmm.
A. Have you been in there for a drink with him at Eastlands?
Q. Ohh could'be been Martin. I really wouldn't know where his shop was in there so. I might've went, been in there not knowing you see.
A. Mmm.
Q. Just excuse me for a while.
WARREN
Q. Martin there's just ahh, just go back a couple, a couple of steps now. When you took the hostage, now you've said you, you can't remember his name?
A. No.
Q. You had your gun?
A. Yeah.
Q. And, and you said it was loaded?
A. Mmm.
Q. Now how was it loaded ahh, did it have a magazine or what?
A. Yeah, it had a magazine.
Q. Right.
A. Had a magazine.
Q. Alright. How many ahh, rounds do you think was in that magazine?
A. There was only eight rounds because I put ten rounds in it and I fired two rounds be, when I left home on Sunday. Target.
PAINE
Q. At which target did you fire them Martin?
A. At which.
Q. Those two rounds, what did you fire them at? A. I fired 'em at a little, umm, sometimes I use a saucer ... inaudible ... or tin cans or whatever I see.
Q. So you didn't fire it at a, one of your homemade targets that you were talking about earlier?
A. I could've umm, I don't know whether I had a homemade target on me that day but umm, no I dunno, I'm not sure now.
Q. Did you do that at that place past Mudunna that you told us?
A. Mmm.
Q. So you stopped and did that.
A. I've been there various other times too.
Q. Yeah.
A. Couple of times.
WARREN
Q. So had eight or nine rounds left in it you say?
A. Yeah, about that. Can't be quite sure about that, it was less than ten.
PAINE
Q. How many does the magazine hold in total?
A. 20.
Q. 20.
A. Or up to 30 sometimes.
Q. Up to 30?
A. Yeah.
Q. In the same magazine?
A. Mmm. It's a lot isn't it.
WARREN
Q. Did you always maintain a full ahh, full lot of rounds or not?
A. No because I never, I didn't want to disturb the peace with having a gun, a gun, 'cos they make quite a big bang.
Q. Mmm.
A. Jump around a bit.
Q. The gun jumps around a bit does it?
A. They kick a bit. It's the sound that's worse, it's pretty loud.
Q. Mmm.
A. Didn't want to get in trouble with the neighbours because I didn't have a licence you see when I was target practising.
Q. Which neighbours are you talking about?
A. Whoever they were when I was target practising.
Q. Mmm.
A. I didn't want to get in trouble, if they heard the guns go off, the gun go off, thought they might call someone in and.
PAINE
Q. Why did you have the guns in the car on that day?
A. 'Cos I wanted to target practice. I often took them when I went down that way surfing or, used to go down there and just to, say at Dunalley and have something to eat or drink and, at the hotel or take their guns down there and just.
Q. Speak up a bit please.
A. And just use 'em as targets, a couple of times, just made me feel good, just letting, letting a coule of rounds off.
WARREN
Q. You went, you used to go down in that area a fair bit then?
A. Mmm.
Q. Would it be fair to say you go down there mare than ahh, you know other parts of the State?
A. With the guns?
Q. Mmm.
A. That's the only place I used to take the guns.
Q. Right.
A. Nowhere else and it's only been the past six, seven months that I've actually used the guns. Before that I'd never used them, before in my life.
PAINE
Q. Did you think that, did you think it was safe to have the ahh, firearms loaded in your car?
A. Umm, well they've got a safety catch thing.
WARREN
Q. So you always kept 'em in you car did you?
A. Mmm.
Q. Even when you were at home?
A. Mmm. It's only seven month's ago that I got that other one out, that AR10, that I never got round to using it but I'd used the wrong bullets so that was seven month's ago that I found out, I went to Terry Hill and got.
Q. Mmm.
A. That's, it's only been seven months that I've been firing 'em. Mmm.
PAINE
Q. A little bit earlier I think you said it made you feel good to umm, use the rif, firearms, why did it make you feel good?
A. Ohh just exciting, just shooting at targets. I dunno, just having something, having a firearm.
Q. Did you ever shoot at game?
A. Never, never, never came to my mind to.
WARREN
Q. Do you like animals?
A. Yeah, love animals.
Q. Mmm. So that's the reason why you wouldn't.
A. I've been brought up with animals.
Q. Sorry?
A. I've been brought up with animals.
Q. Mmm. And that's the reason why you wouldn't shoot them, is that right?
A. Mmm, that's right.
Q. Do you remember ahh, that morning you went down to Roaring Beach, buying a cigaretet lighter form a shop?
A. No, I can't. Which shop is that?
Q. Midway Point.
A. Not at all, not at all, I didn't stop at Midway Point.
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. Definitely.
Q. How can you be definite about it?
A. I don't know but I didn't stop at Midway Point. I remember stopping at the bakery at Sorell.
Q. Sorell. You didn't buy a lighter there?
A. No.
Q. What about fire lighters?
A. Fire lighters. Ohh, got them in me house, got 'em stored up in the house, quite a few, but.
Q. What for?
A. To start a fire.
PAINE
Q. Did you have any in your car that day?
A. No, not at all.
WARREN
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. Yeah, positive.
PAINE
Q. Do you remember stopping at the Forcett shop?
A. Forcett Shop, umm, no I don't. I used to stop there now and then to get a coffee but that's about it.
Q. When you went down that day, did you call into Eagle Hawk Neck, you know the Blowhole or anything like that, that day?
A. No.
Q. To have a look on the way?
A. No.
Q. No.
A. Drove past all them.
WARREN
Q. You don't remember ahh, talking to anyone on the side of the road for instance or?
A. No, I can't recall talking to anyone.
Q. You don't remember going into the Port Arthur site, that's what you said before?
A. No I don't.
Q. At all?
A. At all.
Q. When do you reckon you were there last?
A. Mmm, quite a number of years.
Q. You sure?
A. Yeah. Mmm.
PAINE
Q. Could we cover that bit about umm, Seascape again where I asked you umm, did your family ever want to buy it. Could you go over that again for me please Martin?
A. I never wanted to buy Seascape.
Q. No, I think, didn't you say your father had expressed an interest?
A. Not on Seascape, but the farm, back in '78.
Q. That was the farm in Palmers Lookout Road?
A. Mmm, the Martins owned that.
Q. Right.
A. Still do. Mmm.
WARREN
Q. How, you, you mentioned earlier on when we first started talking about how long it was that you'd, how long ago it was that you'd seen the Martins ahh, and it was what, when you were a teenager was it?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah and you haven't had anything to do with them since basically?
A. No. You mean the sons or the?
Q. No, Mr and, Mr and Mrs Martin?
A. No, ... inaudible ...
Q. But you haven't either, you haven't seen the boys either have you for a while?
A. No, not at all. I haven't seen Darren since I was about this high but I've seen Glen obviously, about four months ago at the ... inaudible ...
Q. Can you remember when the Martins, that Mr and Mrs Martin, ahh, bought Seascape?
A. Back in the '80s, middle, '84, '85 I think they bought it.
Q. Mmm.
A. Mmm.
Q. Did you go down there at all anytime after they'd bought it?
A. Ahh, this is the first time in my life that I've been down there to see them.
Q. What did you think about it?
A. I thought I'd call in and. Ohh I though it was great, having a host farm.
Q. Mmm.
A. Worked hard all their lives, renovating, took them years to build it, renovate it and to start it all up and it's just so sad to see, apparently it's burnt down, it's so sad to see it burnt down.
PAINE
Q. So you know Seascape's burnt down?
A. Yeah. Been informed.
Q. Who told you that?
A. A doctor, and security guards.
Q. What else have they told you?
A. They said.
Q. Could you speak up please.
A. They said that people had been burnt inside there. Mmm. So I don't know how many people were burnt inside the Seascape Guest House.
WARREN
Q. I'm just a little bit confused here Martin because you seem to know a little bit about or a fair bit about what's happened and what they've done to that place, now, how, how did you know that happened?
A. 'Cos when you used to drive past you could see, you, every few weeks, while my parents had a shack, you could see them working on the place, renovating the homestead.
Q. This is when you used to go down surfing?
A. No, no, this is when my parents had the shack.
Q. Right, okay.
PAINE
Q. When did your parents sell that shack?
A. About 1991, '92. So they were working on the, I think they opened up the guest house then but in the late '80s they were renovating. Took 'em, I think it took 'em five or six years to build it up.
Q. Martin, going back to the BMW as we were just talking about the Seascape and the car, why did you put the man in the boot?
A. Ohh because to take him hostage, I thought I'd get in less trouble if I got caught having him in the boot, but I don't know, I just thought, I was a bit worried that if he didn't go, he'd go off in my car.
Q. And why'd you think you'd be in less trouble?
A. I didn't, I didn't want to shoo... 'coz I wouldn've got caught, probably wouldn've got caught you see, he would've gone off in my car, rang the police straight away so I thought I'd take him hostage and let him go later after taking the car for a spin but and when I drove along, I thought I'd go down and see the Martins. Mmm.
Q. What trouble did you think you were in?
A. Ohh, it just came to me to take, take this car, get hold of this car and take if for a drive and it just felt good.
[PORTION MISSING]
WARREN
Q. Do you think.
A. It's possible.
Q. Do you think... inaudible...
A. That's all I've done wrong in my life. The only other thing was on the way home from Kingston, getting pulled up.
Q. Are you sort of saying that Terry Hill shouldn've supplied you those firearms?
A. Ohh I don't know, he's a good man but, mmm. .... inaudible....
WARREN
Q. So are you blaming Terry Hill for what happened?
A. Well I'm not blaming anyone, it wasn't Terry Hill's fault, I got that one out of the paper, don't forget.
Q. True.
WARREN
Q. Mmm.
A. So they're available ...inaudible... advertise 'em. If they don't advertise 'em you wouldn't get 'em. It wouldnt've happened.
WARREN
Q. So.
A. I mean, it's alright for you guys but you're probably glad that it's happened 'cos it's a job.
Q. No, no, no.
WARREN
Q. We're not glad anything's happened like that Martin.
A. It's no good to me either 'cos I'm in here. .... inaudible.... That's all.
Q. Do you think that you're not shutting something out of your mind and not being completely open and honest with us here Martin about that day?
A. I'm honest.
Q. Yeah.
A. About everything.
Q. I just wondered whether you're not really wanting to tell us what you can remember.
A. No, no....inaudible....
WARREN
Q. We just have to let us have a short break for a moment please Martin.
A. Mmm, alright, yeah.
Inspectors PAINE and WARREN leave the room
(Inaudible background conversation)
Inspectors PAINE and WARREN re-enter the room
WARREN
Q. Sorry about that MARTIN
A. That's alright.
Q. Bit of a technical malfunction.
A. I've had me Kentucky so I'm right.
Q. Had your Kentucky. Martin just, just to remind you, you remember earlier when we first started talking that I, I warned you that you weren't obliged to say anything unless you wanted to.
A. Yeah.
Q. If I just remind you of that and you're well aware of that and understand that you don't have to say anything if you don't want to.
A. No that's fine.
Q. Okay. Just so that you understand, that's all. It's a fair while since we started talking with you.
WARREN
Q. Martin, on the day you went to Roaring Beach at Port Arthur, Seascape, did you take your camera with you, a movie camera?
A. Did I take a movie camera, no I didn't take a movie camera but I have got a movie camera.
Q. You have got and I suppose you've used 'em when you've been overseas?
A. No, it's only a small camera.
Q. Small camera. Are you a good photographer?
A. Yeah, good phtographer, yeah. Yeah.
Q. Are you aware of a you know, seasonal problem with wasps at Port Arthur?
A. Seasonal problems. Umm, not at all, not at all. Wasps?
Q. Wasps, yeah.
A. No.
Q. Well have you got any other ...
A. I'm allergic.
Q. ... Understanding of the term wasps?
A. No, but I know that I'm allergic to bees, I nearly died when I was eleven years old.
Q. Did you?
A. The sting, neck swelled right up and just lucky I got to the doctor's in time. Mmm.
Q. Have you ever been to Japan?
A. No never.
Q. But.
A. I'd like to go, 'cos the people are very polite and.
[PAGE 266 MISSING]
Q. Mmm.
A. Mmm.
Q. Just umm, before we go any further, I'll just, you mentioned the Ben Morrisson case earlier ahh, did that in anyway affect your judgement in relation to taking that hostage?
A. No, not at all. I didn't really want to take him, it's only 'cos I didn't want him going straight to the Police, that's the reason I took him hostage.
Q. Right, so the Ben Morrisson case had nothing whatsoever to do with your judgement?
A. Ohh no, not at all.
WARREN
Q. So.
A. It's only 'cos I remember you being involved with it, and coming out of the Court with the parents and, and being on television.
WARREN
Q. Mmm.
A. A couple of times. It was good, I thought you done a good job.
WARREN
Q. Martin, getting back to that point about the hostage, you taking the hostage because you didn't want him telling the Police. What didn't you want him telling the Police.
A. That I took his umm, car.
Q. But I mean, if you'd have left him on the side of the road, he wouldn't have known where you could've driven.
A. Yeah but he could've let them know that there was a chap with blonde hair, took me car, stole me car. So I sort of put him in the boot to be safe.
Q. So you thought your looks that day were distinctive and if someone said they saw a chap with blonde hair.
A. Mmm.
WARREN
Q. At Port Arthur on that particular day.
A. What happened at Port Arthur.
Q. Well you're saying to us that you didn't go to Port Arthur did you?
A. No I didn't.
Q. And you're quite definite?
A. I didn't go, definitely didn't go to Port Arthur.
Q. Well what would you say if ...
A. I wouldn't, I wouldn't pay the money to go in. I would, I would've if I didn't have to pay money.
Q. Well what would you say if I told you that you were seen going into Port Arthur and in fact you were at the toll gate?
A. I couldnt've been.
WARREN
Q. And more than that, that you did complain about the price of admission.
A. Umm, I don't remember going in, into Port Arthur or going through the toll gate at all.
Q. Well as you said a minute ago, you, your description of the long blonde hair does make you umm, stand out from the crowd.
A. Mmm, exactly.
WARREN
Q. What about your yellow Volvo?
A. That would wouldn't it, that would stand out.
WARREN
Q. Yeah.
A. I had me surfboard on top of it. Mmm, I drove straight past.
Q. Well.
A. inaudible
Q. We have lots of people who are telling us that they saw you at Port Arthur and your car.
A. Well it must've been another, there's other Volvos ...
WARREN
Q. With surfboards on the top?
WARREN
Q. With someone with long blonde hair driving them or getting out of them?
A. There's not many with surfboards on top.
WARREN
Q. You don't recall ahh, someone in, in Port Arthur, when you pulled your car up, talking to you about you're not allowed to park your car where you put it?
A. No, not at all.
Q. Is it possible that you could've been in there do you think?
A. Definitely not possible.
Q. Why do you say that?
A. 'Cos I remember driving straight past.
Q. Mmm.
A. ... inaudible ... Martin Bryant
Q. Martin, what if I said to you that ahh, neither Inspector Paine or myself believe what you're saying to us?
A. You don't believe one little thing.
Q. No, but we don't believe that you're, what you're telling us now about not being at Port Arthur.
A. Mmm, all I can say is ... inaudible...
Q. Why do you think ...
A. inaudible
Q. ... Why do you think we would not believe you?
A. I don't, I don't really know. Can't understand.
WARREN
Q. Martin, I want you to have a look at this photo. It's photo number zero one one two. In it is a car I believe to be yours and it's depicted adjacent to the toll booth.
A. Couldn't be mine, where'd you get that. I don't remember being stationary ... inaudible ...
Q. Do you agree that that could be a surfboard on the top?
A. Yes I think it probably is.
Q. And it's certainly similar to your ahh, your car?
A. Mmm.
Q. The registration number of this vehicle I think is CG two eight three five.
A. I don't remember the registration.
WARREN
Q. Well that's your car.
WARREN
Q. So that certainly suggests it because that's the exit road at the toll booth, that your car had been.
A. How could the car be there when I didn't go, go there in the first place. .... inaudible ...
Q. As I said, sorry, as I've said, we have, there are lots of people saying that they saw you in the Port Arthur site and your car in the Port Arthur site.
A. Mmm, I can't recall that.
Q. Did you go to the Broad Arrow Cafe?
A. The last time I've been into the Broad Arrow Cafe was about, I can't recall, must've been two or three years ago.
Q. Once again.
A. 'Cos I haven't been, I haven't been, I haven't taken any of my girlfriends down there. Not at all.
WARREN
Q. Do you remember going there about, about the end of March this year?
A. No, no, no. Was I there in March or what?
Q. Well I'm asking you.
A. No.
WARREN
Q. Once again, lots of people are saying they saw you in the Broad Arrow Cafe on Sunday the 28th of April.
A. Mmm, that's untrue.